‘If you're looking for a specific thing to spice up your sex life, go get a sex toy.’

Pronouns: she / her

Content warning: References to sexual violence, assault and trauma

The names used in this interview have been changed to preserve the anonymity of those mentioned

And how do you self-describe? in terms of your sexuality or gender identity, any way that you prefer to self-describe.

So, I describe myself as a woman. And in terms of my sexuality, it's really hard to say to be honest. I've always called myself bi but over the last five years I've really struggled with that term and feel like pansexual would be more fitting, but I haven't been able to make the shift to identify with that or to call myself that. So yeah, I don't really know what to do. I think I still call myself bi if people ask. I prefer not to use anything, because I don't really feel fully comfortable with the term pansexual.

Why do you think that is? Do you feel like they're very different terms? 

I think pansexual makes more sense, because it's kind of acknowledging that there's more than two genders and that I could be attracted to people who don't fit in the gender binary, and that I have been attracted to people who don't fit in the gender binary. But my reluctance to using the word pansexual is, and it sounds terrible, but because a lot of the people that I know who do call themselves pansexual, I haven't often liked. And that shouldn't necessarily be a reason for me not to, but it's like not wanting to identify with a group I haven't felt a connection with. Whereas I have felt a connection with a lot of the bisexual community. So yeah, I think it has more to do with that sense of collective identity rather than personal identity. And I think that at some point along the way, I probably will make that shift. Because being pansexual is more aligned with my beliefs, my politics and my sexuality. And I also think that it's something that's becoming slightly more common. And so maybe down the line, there'll be more people who identify as pansexual that I like. [LAUGHTER] Actually, I would use the word queer. I would definitely identify as queer and I feel much more comfortable with that.

What feels good about the word queer to you?

It feels really inclusive. I think what I was saying before about linking with the community, the queer community is amazing, and it's wonderful and I really enjoy being a part of that. And also because, as I'm sure we'll get into later, how I feel about my sexuality and not feeling 'bi enough' or all this stuff. And I feel like within the queer umbrella, it allows for all sorts of sexual expression and things. So, I feel most comfortable using the queer label.

You mentioned that you don't feel that you qualify for the bi label. Can you explain that a bit more to me?

This is something that I feel is a common thread with so many people who identify as bi is. So, with my sexual history, pretty much the majority of my sexual history is with people of the opposite gender. And, and so often I feel when I'm calling myself bi, I feel like I struggle with it, because I feel like I haven't had enough experience with people of the same gender. And so I'm like, 'Am I allowed to be bi?'

Who gives you permission, though, to be bi? Who gives you that 'tick'?

I don't know. Well, because you get all these things, straight people who'll be like: "Oh, you're just experimenting." And then you'll get gay people saying the same thing as well. So, if I'm predominantly presenting, I guess, as heterosexual, and then occasionally hooking up with people of the same gender... I feel like the perception from outside might be that I'm just 'experimenting.' Which is something that, really, people shouldn't be saying or thinking about people. I feel like that's such a teenage way of thinking potentially, like the Katy Perry (song) 'I kissed a girl' kind of thing.  I don't even know if people are saying it to me, or whether it's just the judgement I'm putting on myself to be honest. I'm not sure. 

When did you first become aware of your sexuality?

So it was when I was a teenager. I came out to my friends and my family when I was about 15 or so. 

And did you instantly use the term bi? Or did you know straight away? 

Yeah. I came out as bi. I think my best friend at the time was also bi. Actually, I think she now identifies it as a lesbian. So, I felt like we were kind of going on this journey together, which is really helpful. I was less alone. But yeah, right from the start, I was identifying as bi.

And the term 'coming out', what does that mean to you?

At the time, it felt like a big disclosure, like a thing that I had to admit to. At the time, it felt like I was being dishonest with my friends if I didn't tell people about this. There were some friends that I didn't tell though. Because there was one friend in particular who said that if she ever found out that any of her friends were lesbian, she would stop being friends with them. Well, I have still not come out to her.

And these are friends you currently have?

We're still friends. We only see each other every couple of years because she lives in the States. But I don't think she has the same views now, but I've just never got around to telling her. I don't think she'd be surprised to be honest. But like I say, I don't think she holds the same views anymore. And the way she was, as a teenager, that was quite a difficult thing to hear as someone who was one of her best friends. I didn't ask her at the time, when she said that: "Well, what are your thoughts on bi people? Is there a difference there?" But she said: "Yeah, I couldn't be friends with them because I'd feel uncomfortable getting dressed in front of them." Because we were at a girl’s school. We're all in the changing rooms together, and when we went to each other's houses we would be getting changed in front of each other. And so, part of me also then felt really guilty that I had never told her because I was in these intimate settings with her. And with the knowledge that she wouldn't like me to be there if she knew that I was attracted to women, even though I wasn't attracted to her at all. Part of it felt like it was a disclosure I had to make, in terms of honesty with my friends, even though I didn't make it to her. With my family, I didn't really know why I told my parents, to be honest. 'Cuz it wasn't the most pleasant conversation. 

I'm sorry to hear that.   

Well, no, both of them were just like: "Oh, you're a teenager. It's just a phase. It just happens to everyone." And at the time, I was also really depressed, and they also didn't really believe I was depressed either. So, it was just part of a whole ongoing difficult conversation with my parents about the things I was going through. And I'm not quite sure why I talked to them about any of it. But I did. And everything; they just thought it was a phase. And so I haven't really picked it up with them again, since because I'm like, ‘Well, I came out to you when I was 15. I don't need to update you, you've got the knowledge. If you don't want to believe it, that's up to you.’

When you have come out to people, what kind of responses from them have you had? 

I think that my dad started telling me about when he was at school, and there were boys who would experiment with other boys. And I was like: "Okay, cool story, that's not what I'm talking about right now!" I can't even remember what my mom said. Yeah, there was definitely "Yeah, it's just a phase." And then other people that I've spoken to, I mean, I can't fully remember to be honest, when I came out to people when I was a child. But when I was a teenager, people that I've come out to later in life, often, it's not something that comes up straight away. It's just thought of something that maybe two or three years into our friendship I'll be like: "Oh, you know I'm bi, by the way." And they'll be like: "Yeah, we did know." Even if I've not said anything, most of the time people are like: "Yeah, we know." So, I don't know what it is that I'm doing that is giving off the 'bi vibes'. But for some reason, it's not a surprise to most people when I tell them as an adult.

Would you find they are mostly positive responses besides, what you've mentioned about your parents? Or do you find you get negative responses as well?

I can't quite remember what the responses were when I was a teenager, I feel that there would have been more mixed responses then. But yeah, as an adult, it's all been fine. To be honest, I guess I would know better who I was saying that to. It's not something that comes out in the first instance, or it's not something that (I say) in my work pace, like: "Hello, everyone! I'm bi!" Yeah, I feel like that information is only something that ever comes up when it's someone that I would trust anyway.

So you've already made an educated judgement on whether it's safe to tell them almost? 

I guess, but then at the same time, it's not like I hide it either. Which is probably why people are not surprised when I eventually do tell them. I'll be talking very openly about being an LGBT champion and going to Pride and all that kind of stuff. And that would be with people that are strangers, or in my workplace or whatever, and I guess it probably is very clear that I'm part of the queer community, even if I'm not saying outright. This is me, this is how I identify. And so because I'm not saying explicitly, this is what I am, I'm just, I guess, politically making a stand. I've never had any bad responses to that, because I feel like just the way that I talk about things generally is like: "I don't give a fuck what you think." There's not much room for people to react. [LAUGHTER]

Do you feel being a bisexual queer woman affects the responses that you've had?     

Well first of all, bisexual men just have so much more stigma, from my experience. The number of men I've spoken to that have had women say that they will not date a bisexual man or won't have sex with a bisexual man for all sorts of reasons. They believe that if they were to date them, then they'll be cheated on, that they'll go and cheat on them with a guy, which doesn't make any sense. I don't know why it makes any difference who they're going to cheat on them with and why they're so obsessed with the idea that they're going to cheat. Also, even just stuff to do with medicine and stuff, I was getting an STI test the other day, and one of the questions that I got in my checkup was: "Have you ever had sex with someone who inject drugs?" And "Have you ever had sex with a man who has sex with men? Or a bisexual man?" And it just further fuels this stigma against bisexual men. And gay men, of course. But that just feels like bisexual men are not able to be as open, I don't think, as bisexual women. Then for me, as a bisexual woman, there's also another side of it, which is people really like bisexual women. If a heterosexual couple who are looking for a third person, a 'unicorn,' someone to experiment with. And for me, it sort of ties in with this exoticization that I can feel often in sexual spaces. The fact that I'm not white, the fact that I'm bisexual was like: "Oh, that's exciting! This exciting bit of flavour I can add to my sex life." And I feel like there's so many men that I've been with who are like: "Oh, you're bisexual. That's really sexy!" And the idea of me cheating on them with a woman is acceptable, but me cheating on them with a guy is completely unacceptable, which makes no sense.

Why do you think they assume that? A couple of times you said: "when they cheat," do you think there was an assumption that because you're bi that you will be less inclined to monogamy?

I think that there's an assumption that if you're bisexual, you're more promiscuous. Because you're attracted to everyone, literally every single person on the planet.

Do you think that's true? 

No. [LAUGHTER] I mean, I do think I am attracted to a lot of people to be fair. So I'm like: "Oh God, am I just part of this?" Just adding to the myth that bisexual people are attracted to everyone but obviously I'm not attracted to everyone, but I think there is this idea that we're just ‘more horny’, and more promiscuous. And there's just this thing with the Katy Perry (song) 'I Kissed A Girl', this cultural thing where: "Oh, it's really hot when a straight girl, or a bisexual girl is making out with another girl. That's a hot thing!" As opposed to: "That might be my girlfriend cheating on me." Which is this weird thing. I have, in the past, cheated, but back when I was much younger and been really confused by the response to it where I was like: "This was cheating. I don't know why you're okay with this. We should be having a proper conversation about this." So, all that male gaze, watching women make out with each other, even if you're not there watching it. You're just hearing someone talk about that, as a woman that they made out with another woman or had sex another woman? It's like: "Oh, hot!" "What?! This is so weird! Do you want to hear about me having sex with another man?" Like: "No! I don't want to hear anything about that!" "You want to hear about me having sex with other women?" "Yes, please!"

Why do you think that is?

I think it has to do with the male gaze, and just an obsession with women's bodies and just objectifying them in that way. But I guess the other thing is that, to straight men, me hooking up with another woman is not a threat. Because if I was to hook up with another man, it's a physical threat, because if they were to ever get in a fight with that other man, that would be more of a threat than it would be if it was a woman.

So it's a threat to their masculinity almost?

Exactly, yeah. So if I was with a man and I cheated on them with another man, then that is something that they will internalise like: "I'm not enough of a man, I can't keep my woman. My penis isn't big enough, blah, blah, blah." All this kind of stuff. Whereas if I cheat on them with a woman, they've literally got nothing. They just like: "Oh, that's cool." [LAUGHTER]

Oh yeah, there's no penis. [LAUGHTER]

Yeah, exactly, which is bizarre!

And just go back a little bit: you mentioned before that you feel you have been exoticized by men sometimes. How has that made you feel?

I mean, it's awful. But like I say, because I'm mixed race, I've been exoticized for a whole bunch of different reasons. And it's really uncomfortable; to be seen as this 'exciting flavour', people call me exotic literally all the time. "Oh, you're so exotic looking! And that's so hot!" I'm just like: "Excuse me? How dare you!" Equally, at the same time, when I was younger and had not really come to terms with how offensive this was… when you're younger and you're eager to please, I was like: "Oh, you think I'm exotic? Oh, you like that I'm bisexual. Oh, that's really great. Yay, you like me!" And I say (it’s been) only (the) last eight years or something where I'm like: "No, don't do this to me!" 

Do you think the gender of your sexual or romantic partner, either current or previous, has affected how people have reacted to you when they've learned of your sexuality? 

I can't remember. I do feel that when I have been with a woman, when I said to a work colleague or something: "Oh, I'm going to meet up with my girlfriend," it felt like this huge statement. It felt like I was coming out as a lesbian. And I feel like that's how my colleague took it. But I didn't ask, really. It just felt like a really big thing. Because of this whole weird middle ground of being bi, where you're either ‘experimenting’ or you're ‘a lesbian in denial’, or something. By saying I have a girlfriend that would put me in that 'lesbian in denial' category, or just a lesbian. What I would liken it to the most… So (I’ve also, for the last) year and a half, two years, been non-monogamous. And I feel like when I have been only with one partner, not out of choice or whatever, there's an idea from friends like: "Oh, okay, you found your one person. You're monogamous now." And I'm like: "No, I'm, I'm still (non) monogamous." I'm just, especially during COVID, or whatever, like: "No, I literally can't meet up with anyone else. So I have one partner at the moment. Yeah, but that doesn't make me monogamous." And similarly, I'm not sure whether this is my own internal narrative, or whether it is something that I can feel from other people, that it's like: "Oh, you're with a man now. You have found your sexuality or something you've landed in it." I don't really know.

So, when you happen to be with a guy people make the assumption: "Oh, you're straight now" Or: "You're straight"? Or when you're with a woman, people then go straight to 'gay'? Do you find people then have ever made the first assumption that you’re bi, or do you feel like it's always one or the other? (gay or straight)

I think if I'm in a relationship with people, it does feel like people just land on one and I think that is part of the culture of monogamy, where it's like if you're in a relationship, you're in that relationship for life unless something horrific happens. And so you will never even fancy another person, you will never even stare at another person and be attracted to them. Which is insane. So yeah, there's this idea that the second you're in a committed relationship, all other attraction goes out the window and so therefore if I'm with a man, I'm now straight. If I'm with a woman I'm now a lesbian. That's what I feel with the culture of monogamy. I feel like that is implicit in it that you're never gonna fancy anyone ever again. And if you do, you're evil! [LAUGHTER]

And you mentioned that you're no longer monogamous. (In) polyamory circles, how do you feel people respond to your sexuality, or is it not that much of an issue at all?

I say it's definitely not much of an issue. I would still say that there's probably more explicit 'Unicorn Hunting' in those circles, because there are more people who are in relationships who are openly looking for a third person or whatever. So that's definitely a problem still.

Do you find being referred to as a 'unicorn' problematic?   

I prefer people to be attracted to me and be like: "Oh, I'd like to explore something with you." Rather than being like: "I am looking for this specific thing. Oh, you will fit." That really sucks. I don't want to be a tick box exercise. If you're looking for a specific thing to spice up your sex life, go get a sex toy.  A human being is not this thing that you can just pick up off the shelf. It's very dehumanising, I'd say.

Why do you think people use the term unicorn? Unicorns don't exist.

Yeah, but that's the problem, isn't it? The reason it's called a unicorn is because to actually find someone who is happy to play that role is an impossibility. Because they are people, they're a human being and there are feelings involved and to find someone that's going to be equally attracted to both partners and all that stuff is really hard to find. I think that's the implication of the word unicorn. It does happen, definitely. I've seen it happen. It hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it happen.

Are you aware of any other words or phrases or stereotypes that have been associated with the bisexual community?

Yeah, I guess. We're just 'super horny,’ ‘super promiscuous,’ 'really greedy'. We just want to have all the sex with all the people all the time. We're 'confused'. This is more for lesbians; that we just 'haven't had a dick that's good enough.' That we just can't make up our minds, I guess. 

Do you feel that any of those stereotypes in particular are associated with one gender (if any)?

I do think that bisexual men are generally more thought of as just gay. I think that bisexual women are probably more perceived as people who are experimenting with women, because that's hot to straight guys. Whereas the bisexual men? I guess because straight men cannot fathom why you would be attracted to another man and have sex with another man, like: "No, you're just gay". And therefore are cast out from the community of men. ‘You are now a gay man.' 

Have you heard the term 'bierasure' before? What do you associate with that term? 

I guess what I was saying before, that people don't necessarily believe that bi people are a real thing, that they think that you're experimenting or you're just confused or you're on your path to becoming gay. So, they're erased by the fact that people will actually end up putting them into either the gay or straight category. I guess the other part of the erasure is that there's very few bisexual celebrities that we can look to. And even when there are people who have been in their public sphere who are potentially bi or something, media narratives confuse that or change that story. So, Lindsay Lohan, for example, I feel like when she had a relationship with a woman, it was: "Now she's a lesbian!" And then when she was no longer in a relationship with a woman, it's: "Now she's straight again!" I mean, she's probably bi, right? But I don't think you see any stuff about Lindsay Lohan being bi. That’s at least the impression that I've got, and I feel like that narrative happens quite frequently. And I mean, I keep bringing up Katy Perry, I cannot stand that (‘I Kissed a Girl’) song. I hate it. I mean, it's a brilliant pop song, but I feel like it's so damaging. That song is horrifying, condoning this,idea that when girls kiss other girls it's so wrong but it felt so right and it's just experimentation. And that feels like it's a little part of that whole narrative and when Madonna kissed Britney... In my world, I like to imagine that Madonna and Britney have really got the hots for each other. [LAUGHTER] Bisexual Britney, that's the dream. 

You said that so far, you've not really had any negative responses that you can remember. So the positive responses you've had towards your sexuality, can you give me an example of a positive response you've had from someone?   

I feel like most people I can remember saying that I'm bi to are just like: "Yeah. Okay. And what?" 

Do you find that's a positive response, the fact there is not really any reaction?

I think so, yeah. I feel like if they were like: "Oh my goodness, that's brilliant. Wow!" I'd be like: "I find that kind of a weird response." 'Cuz why should it be a positive or a negative that I am any sexuality? That's how I feel. Someone's sexuality shouldn't really be something to be happy about. That's just them. It'd be like me saying: "I'm wearing yellow socks today." "Cool. Okay." That's just reality. This is what's happening today. I don't know. [LAUGHTER]

Where do you feel most confident expressing your sexuality? In what spaces or communities do you feel most welcomed or accepted?

Definitely in the queer community and the polyamorous sex positive community. I feel ,with many straight men, that's been an exoticization or fetishization when they’ve heard that I’m bi or whatever. Which can make me feel uncomfortable, so it’s more comfortable in the queer community to say that stuff. I also like in the more sex positive spaces, I feel like I don’t have to put so much judgement on myself or my differing levels of experience with different genders and stuff. I can just express however I want to. And I think also the important thing with being in those sex positive spaces is… I don’t know how much you’ve spoken to other people, other bisexual women specifically, but I feel like there’s a lot of baggage and trauma with being any person who’s attracted to men, and having had lots of sexual trauma with men. Whether that’s sexual assault or rape. I feel that the fact that I continue to be attracted to men is a really hard thing. And in many ways is something that I wish I could get rid of. And the fact that they continue to be the people that I have relationships with more, or percentage wise. I still have more men in my life than I have women in my life. That is continually difficult and retraumatizing. And so therefore being in the more sex positive spaces, (with) more explicit consent. Less male violence, essentially, makes it safer to be ok with the fact that I’m attracted to both genders, I think. Yeah, so it’s great that I can pursue (stuff) with women in those spaces because I feel safer and more able to express myself. But I’ve found it really interesting being in those spaces that I also feel safer around the fact that I’m attracted to men. Despite all the shit that is associated with men. So yeah, those are the spaces where I feel most comfortable.