‘I just have a really big capacity to love everybody’

Pronouns: she / they

Content warning: None

In terms of your gender identity or your sexuality, whichever you prefer to disclose, how do you self-describe?

I am figuring that out. But I would say my gender identity... I say not cis. And in terms of sexuality, bisexual.

And in terms of your sexuality, are there any terms that you don't necessarily agree with? So we're using bi visibility with the understanding that also includes queer, pan, whatever people prefer to disclose. 

I would say that I use bisexual and queer. I think I lean more towards saying queer, just because it encompasses my whole identity. But I've never been one to use pan, I understand that they're pretty similar, but it just never felt correct to me.

What feels good to you about bi and queer?

I think bi to me has always felt right. Now that you're asking, it's weird to articulate but I think I've always... I was raised by queer people, and one of them who doesn't define her sexuality but was married to a woman for several years. And I think bi feels good, because it's just about a capacity to love, and not necessarily identifying on any sort of spectrum or binary. And queer feels right, it just feels good. I don't really prefer LGBTQ because I feel like queer just encompasses a whole movement and history and a radical deviation from the norm. And that feels pretty cool.

When did you first become aware of being bisexual?

That's a good question. It is a story. I think I have always known that I just have a really big capacity to love everybody. I always thought everybody was beautiful. And I would think about everybody like "Oh, wow, I could date them." I remember one time, early in my high school years, I was at a sleepover with a friend and woke up and realised that I had had a dream about the friend. And then I felt very guilty and bad, and then I had come to terms with it at that point. Before that, there were a lot of people who were trying to out me, even though I hadn't even come to terms with it myself, "Oh, I see you looking at that girl, are you a lesbian or...?" Things like that all of the time. And I think that that partly had to do with the fact that my parents are two women. But I think it was a lot of just what happens in high school where people want to out other people. Which I think it's terrible. But I had developed a crush on a girl who was older than me. And I was in love with her, and she seemed to like me too. But it didn't end with anything. But I remember texting my best friends and saying "Hey, just so you know, I really like this girl. She's awesome. I think I like everybody." And it was a lot of like "Oh, yeah, obviously, you say things like that all the time." And some of them were just like "I had no idea. But it makes sense now that I think about it." So yeah, it's still reckoning and coming to terms with things. I don't think that's slowing down anytime soon.

Has coming out been part of your experience? You've mentioned that you've told a couple of people a few things.

I'm sure that you know this but the term 'coming out' makes it seem like it's this grandiose one, 'one and done situation'. But I just feel like I'm always explaining myself to people; as a mixed race person, as a bi person, as a queer person. I'm never fitting anywhere on either side of anything. And so I feel like I'm always having to explain myself to people and that's really frustrating. Because I wish that people could just say "Okay, that's very cool. Thank you for telling me." It's been very easy, especially going to college. I was like "By the way, everybody I am bisexual." But with older friends and family members is much more difficult and I'm still not out to many people. And I'm not out to all my family members. So I have had my coming out journey, but feels like it will never end. [LAUGHTER]

And when you have spoken to people, when you have come out, have you had any responses from anybody?

I think, honestly, the funny thing about being at college and coming out was that nobody really cared. I certainly go to a liberal little bubble of a school. So everyone just went "Yeah, okay, all of us are queer. Cool." [LAUGHTER] But the responses that I really appreciate are the ones from my older friends who have known me for a long time and they have all said "Yes, I support you 100%." And I just think it's funny, of getting that moment, something about it feels very true to the coming out. Classic coming out story of: "Yeah, we knew all along." Because, honestly, sometimes when I told people, I was hurt by the fact that they just said "Okay, sure," and moved on. I wanted it to be a big thing, I wanted a lot of excitement and a celebration. So having a little bit of what I think of as the 'true coming out story' in quotes was coming true for me. But I think, coming out to my family; certainly harder. I told one of my moms and she just had a lot of questions like: "How did you even come to realise this, you've never dated a girl?" All of that stuff, which is really making me think about how she never came out or had thoughts about a woman before until she met my mom and then they were in love. So I think it's really interesting that she doesn't understand completely. Then coming out to my brother, my older brother, I texted him and just said "By the way, hope you know I'm bisexual." And he said "Okay, seems like everybody in this family is gay except for me." So it hasn't been met with the excitement that I want or the support that I necessarily want. So it's been strange, but I haven't had anything that's inherently bad I don't think. I haven't had anyone oust me or say "That's it, we're not supporting you." But the same is also true that I haven't had that, because I haven't told anybody that I think could possibly do that.

Do you think it's fair to say that you've been very selective with who you've told, in some respects? 

Certainly, yeah.

Why do you think that is?

I think it's a safety mechanism for me. And it feels like a dichotomy. Because on the one hand, I'm protecting myself by not telling certain people, but on the other hand I'm hurting myself, because I have to cut off a slice of who I am and set it aside when I engage with those people. So it's certainly been difficult. But I think that it's all that I can do right now. 

And how about the response from your brother and one of your moms, how did their kind of responses make you feel?

The responses from my family have not made me feel great. I think I get a little bit of relief from coming out. But it's momentary, because it's been met with questions and ambivalence and not very family-like interactions. I mean, every family has its problems, but I guess I should just put a disclaimer that my family's a mess, and I don't really like hanging out with them. So I wasn't really expecting anything great, but I had hoped for it and dreamed of it, but it didn't happen. 

Do you feel being a bisexual person of your gender (if any), affects what reactions you have experienced?

I think so. I think bisexuality, as an umbrella, people are not very keen on it, generally. But I think when I came out to everybody I've come out to so far, I was identifying as cis. And so a lot of people just thought "Okay, that's cool." I'm a small girl and everybody just thought it was sweet. But I think for anybody who's not a cis woman, or like I am, I know that this is not a term that people like to use very much, but as a 'cis presenting', hetero presenting person, it's definitely been easier for me than I think it is for trans people or bi men, because I know that that's a very different situation. So I think that, given all the circumstances, I'm glad that I came out before I used the pronouns that I use, because I haven't come out about those things yet to most people, and I'm a little nervous to do that. I think that the compounding of being bi and then also some other identity that doesn't mesh well with being bi or being queer in some other way makes it really hard. And it feels like sometimes, even now just being out as bi to my family, they're thinking that it's a phase or whatever. I can pretend, but I have never been with anybody except for my cis male partner. So that's really hard. 

Do you think the gender of your partner would affect the responses that you get?   

Yes, I think that the gender of the person that I'm currently dating, or the people that I have dated in the past, certainly affects how people have received me specifically. I think that it gives this assumption that 'she's dating a male person, she is heterosexual, there's no other explanation.' And honestly, I have to catch myself too, when I see two women walking I say, "Oh lesbians, how exciting!" But honestly, they can both be bi and I don't know, and I shouldn't assume. But I think that if I were to be dating somebody who was not a man, it would be a totally different situation. I think they'd be more keen on the fact that I'm bisexual and more receptive to that, but there would be a whole other problem with the fact that I was dating somebody who is not a man, if that makes any sense. So yeah, it's really confusing. 

What do you think it is about the assumptions (on someones sexuality) we make? Do you think it's something that's ingrained in us? What do you think it is?

I think so. I think that the way the queer movement has not gone very far for the outside world. I think it's still 'there are straight people, gay people and lesbians'. And so, in my head, I think it is ingrained to see two people who present as men or two people present as women and just sort of assume, or even two straight people, straight looking, a straight couple. I just did it just now, that I think that I assume their sexuality based on their partner, which is awful. I try not to do that. One of my parents identifies as a lesbian and one of them doesn't identify. And when I was younger, I asked her, "Are you a lesbian? Because you've only dated mom, and you're dating all these guys?" And she said "No." And I was on, I was on feminist Tumblr in middle school. So I asked her "Are you pansexual? Because you just love people for their souls." And she said "Maybe, but I don't like that." So that wasmy only exposure to that culture of maybe just not knowing or not identifying as anything that's binary. And even though now I'm surrounded by queer people, and people who are non-conforming. I think it's gonna take a long time to unlearn that assumption that immediately happens in my brain.

And are you aware of any stereotypes or turns of phrases or words that are associated with the bi community?

Certainly, there are plenty. [LAUGHTER] The number one thing that I really don't like that is said about bi people is that they're going through ‘a phase’, that eventually they'll choose. Even when I came out to my brother, he said, "Are you going to tell our other mom?" And I said "No I'm not, because even though she's a lesbian, she doesn't believe in bi people." And he said "We could just tell her that for now you picked one, but you might pick women in the future." And I said "No, that's not, that's just causing more harm to me than it is good." So that really, really frustrates me. And I think also that bi people are 'greedy', that we just want to have a lot of sex. And I think even within the community there's bi women who are like "I hate men. But I'm bi somehow," and I really don't like that either. Because none of us are the same, in terms of where we are at in our lives, or attraction or anything like that. I think there's just a lot of misinformation about us. Oh, and the argument between bi and pan people, that bi people are transphobic, and 'so binary' in the way that we think. When, honestly, I think as a student of gender theory and sexuality theory, that there's not really a difference between the labels. There was at one point, maybe that bi was an attraction to men and women and that pan was an (attraction) to anybody, regardless of their body, but they're the same thing. And people can just pick and choose whatever they want to use. So that really frustrates me too.

Are there any stereotypes about bi people that you think are targeted to a particular gender (identity)? 

That's really interesting. I think that each gender identity that is identifying as bi has its unique challenges, but I can't think of any stereotypes that are specifically put onto one gender. I think that all of us suffer from the same: Men are ‘going to find out that they're gay,’ and women are ‘going to find out that they're lesbians’, or they're just testing the waters because they want to kiss a girl. And then they'll go back to men forever. So I don't know, I think that those are the only things that I can think about.

And are you aware of the term bierasure? What does that mean to you?

For me, bierasure is just the notion that bi people don't exist, because they're people on their way to something else. And also, it means that we're not represented in anything because we're all kind of coded to think: lesbian, gay, straight. So even if some film company claims that a character is bi it's never revealed in the show. They just date women, like a woman is just dating women but she's never presented as bi. And even I think from lesbian and gay communities, there's a lot of claiming of language, and of practices and norms. Which historically doesn't make sense because bi people were clumped with lesbians because there was no bi movement. They couldn't have it because they were more oppressed than lesbians and gays. And that's really frustrating, but generally I guess bierasure is just the erasure (of) the fact that we exist and that we're normal people, and that it's not a phase or about greed or consumption. But just that we love people and don't feel the need to choose anybody specifically to love. 

You mentioned film companies advertising that a bi person is in a production. If you knew you were going to see a bi character on television, what would you want to see?

If I knew that I was going to see a bi character I'd mainly want to see responsibility on the companies (part). I think, even in the past, when there have been bi characters in shows and movies, they are sort of targets for the jokes of other characters, or jokes by the writer, or whoever. So I think that I would just like to see a bi person that's living their life, a bi person that is monogamous. Because though non-monogamous representation is really cool, bi people aren't all non-monogamous. And so just seeing somebody who isn't conflicted about whether to pick the man or the woman, or isn't dating people back to back, just a person who is in a relationship, who also happens to be bi would be cool. Or not even in a relationship, which is a normal regular average Joe, I guess.

The positive reactions that you've had from people, can you tell me a bit more about those?

Sure. I think I've been very lucky in getting support from friends in my coming out. And the positive reactions that I've had have been very uplifting for me. Getting messages that say "I'm here to support you, what can I do? How has this been, coming out? Who knows? And do you like that they know?" Questions that rattle around in my head all the time but nobody's really asking me, those have been really cool. And also, for my friends who like to gossip and talk about drama, when I was coming out and talking about this girl that I was infatuated with (them just being like): "Ooh, tell me more about her. What does she do? Why did you like her so much?" And I think that's really cool. I think it helps to have that normalisation of, 'this is just a crush. And I'm talking to my best friend about a crush that she had.' Or, "This is a really big moment. I think that's been really cool. And I'm very grateful for it, even though I haven't come out to all those people with my pronouns, because that feels like a different thing. And it's good that they know at least a little bit. 

And finally, where do you feel that your sexuality is most welcomed and accepted? Where do you feel most celebrated?

That's a really good question. I think that my sexuality is most celebrated in that online space that I am in somehow. Because I run my page about sex and sexuality and anything that I feel like talking about., I've made a lot of awesome friends through that and other queer people, which is weird to me, because I didn't grow up having queer friends or even friends of colour. So that's really exciting. And I think my dream is to go to a queer club, I have never been to one because I am too young but I really want to go. I feel like that would be an awesome... or just queer events in general, where I don't have to explain anything, would be really cool. And I'm hoping that after the pandemic, if there is an after, that I get to do those things, because it seems really cool. And I want to be in more spaces like that.

Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about while we're here? 

I don't think so. I think, for me, my bi identity is also tied to the fact that I'm mixed and that I'm not cis and that I have all of these very strange, non-binary things in my life. And so I just think that's really interesting. And I'm excited to see if that's true for other people that you talk to. Because yeah like everything in my life, I don't have a definitive answer or explanation for anything. And that's very hard. So I hope that you talk about that a little bit in the show, cuz it's weird to me. And it's sometimes really cool, because I'm like "I'm ambiguous! Nobody knows!" But also: "Nobody understands what I'm saying."