‘It is for protection and survival that I have surrounded myself with people who don't care what you are’
Pronouns: they / them
Content warning: References to racism
Names have been changed and redacted to protect anonymity
How do you self-describe in terms of your identity?
So, I have a lot of identity markers. I'm Brown, non-binary, mixed heritage, Muslim, bi, queer and autistic. So those are all my markers.
And in terms of your sexuality, you already mentioned bi and queer, are they the terms that you prefer to use for yourself?
Yeah, I think more recently, I've been using queer more as a political term. But I also really identify with being bi. I'm a member of the Bi and the 'Brum Bi' community in Birmingham. And they're quite a close-knit community. We do 'bi camp' every year. And I think there's a real community there and a pride in being bi. And with bi it's quite inclusive of pan people as well. I was using pan for a while, but I think bi has more of a history to it. And obviously you get bi erasure, and for me bi just works. So I use bi mostly.
What feels good about the term 'Bi' for you?
I think it's just the fact that it goes against what straight is, first of all, because I know that I'm not straight. And also, I know I've grappled with 'Am I a lesbian or am I straight?' And I think finding that community and finding other bi people, it's like, 'oh, okay, there's, there is other people that feel like this.' It's not, you don't have to choose between one or the other. There is this kind of, it's not a middle ground, it's something completely separate for me. And yeah, I feel like I fit into there, that category.
Are there any terms that are under the Bi+ umbrella that you don't like or you don't quite feel right with?
There's nothing that you've said just now that I would disagree with. Maybe you could list some words that come under that umbrella, but I can't think of anything that people would say that I'd be uncomfortable with, really. And I guess there's always different terms coming out and things like that. So I think if someone self describes as something I'm not necessarily versed on, or I don't particularly understand… Non-binary is a relatively new term for me. And it's something that I'm just sitting with now. It technically means whoever dates me is gay, whether they're bi or whether they're whatever. So it's interesting that sort of continuation of myself and my identity, that bi - ness is, it just exists within myself.
When did you first become aware that you were bisexual?
So, I started dating a girl when I was around fifteen, or maybe younger than that, maybe 14. And obviously was dating a girl. And then the kind of thing in my mind was: "Okay, I'm lesbian, I'm gay. That's it." And then, I was 15 and then started dating a guy, and I thought: "Okay, well, I'm straight." You know, I didn't really realise that there was this 'other thing'. I think it was only really when I moved to uni. So I must have been 18/19. I was dating a guy at that point, but I was like: "Oh, I'm bi." And I was very open with the fact to him that I was bi. So maybe fully formed 'bi (me)' was probably 18/19 or so. I feel quite lucky that I was always quite comfortable with my sexuality. And I was out at school, an all-girls school in North London, which was difficult. But when I look back that's just what I wanted. I was just madly (in) 'teenage love' with this girl. And also, my mom had had relationships with other genders and stuff. So I always knew, and they were like lesbian people in her friendship group. I had a gay cousin. So they were these people on the periphery. And suddenly, I was like: "Oh, okay." It's only recently now I'm like: "Oh, now I'm the gay cousin. Now I'm the the queer person." I've got a girlfriend, and she's gonna start coming to family events and things like that. And it's like, now I have little cousins and members of my family, nieces and nephews. And how they react to me is what I'm thinking as well. Yeah, so I think I always knew about gayness, or I knew about queerness. But yeah, bi-ness is... was later in the journey, I think.
So it sounds like you were raised in a very open environment for homosexuality and bisexuality?
Kind of, because my mom was very liberal. But my dad's side of the family, and my mom's… I'm second generation from my mom's side, and third generation my dad's side, both from immigrant families, both Muslim families. My dad's side are incredibly strict. I remember a very specific thing where I was reading something about Buddhism. And I remember my uncle snatching it out of my hand being like, "What are you reading this for? You're Muslim. You don't need this." So, I had a very complicated relationship with that side of my family. And then my mom's side of my family, they were more liberal Muslims. But still it was: "Being gay is wrong." Racism was apparent, a lot of different things. And I'm not saying that I hate my cultures, there's a lot of good there. But being brought up, the homophobia was casual. It was difficult because, obviously, I was like: "Oh, shit, if I ever grow up and I want to date a girl, how is that going to work? It's just not gonna work." And I think my bi-ness and my gender identity sort of come together. So, when I was young, I refused to shave. When I was getting to puberty, I was just like: "I don't want to shave. It's a very feminine thing for me, and I don't feel like I need to do that." And there was pushback from my family about that. So yes, it's interesting, because my mom's always been very supportive. But also, even though she's had relationships which are not heterosexual, she said to me: "Okay, you're Bi. So just marry... marry a dude. And it will be fine." She wants me to be happy and safe, and she doesn't want any pushback from society. She wants me to have a comfortable life. So when I said: "Right, I'm non-binary." And I said: "I'm bi." She's like: "Well, just be quiet about it. Don't talk about it." And I don't feel like that's unique in terms of the immigrant experience either. But, I guess my mom was more liberal and did have very feminist texts on the bookshelf. But I guess when it came to her thinking about the homophobia and the pressures of society on me, I think that's where the difficulties were. And I've completely distanced myself from the Asian side of my family because the homophobia and other things; sexism and stuff is just very rampant. And so I'm not out to that side of my family. I'm out to the more close, intimate family of my mum's side.
And the term 'coming out', what does that term mean to you?
I remember very clearly, when I was first dating this girl in secondary school and my mom finding out, and I don't know exactly what she found out. I can't remember exactly how she reacted, but she was like: "You can't see her." Or: "You shouldn't be doing that sort of thing." And I remember very clearly drawing a diagram for her of what me and this girl were going through, and it was a swimming pool. It's like a metaphor for our love, we were in a swimming pool together and my mom was draining out the water. And the water was our love. It was very teenage angst, you know? So that was me trying to come out, I guess, at that age, but I was only 13/14? So I didn't really know what that meant. I remember there's a person called Tanya Compass, I think they're gay, but I'm not hundred percent sure. They're on Twitter. And I remember them writing that: "It's not coming out. It's letting people in." And that's always stuck with me, that and this idea of coming out as a continual process. Always coming out to new people, and always coming out to yourself and learning new things about yourself. I like the idea that it's not coming out, it's you letting people into your life and letting people know more about you.
When you have come out to people, when you have let them in. Have you had any responses from individuals or groups when they have learned of your sexuality?
Because I've been out for so long and been resigned to the fact that I'm queer, I think I try to surround myself with other queer people and other bi people. I mean, I remember when I came out to my boyfriend around a few years ago. I was like: "I'm Bi." And he was like: "Oh, okay, cool, get on with it, it’s fine”. At that time, he wanted to be monogamous and I was fine being monogamous as well. So there was no issue there. I think coming out to my best friends was fine. They always knew that I was queer, obviously, they went to school with me. And then as we grew up, grappling with my queerness and my gender identity as well. It’s quite interesting because I was the first openly queer and out queer in my friend group. And then as we're growing up, obviously, everyone is on their own journey, and everyone comes to these realisations (at their own) time. But now I have some best friends that are like: "I'm queer." But yeah, that makes sense, "Clearly I'm bi, clearly I'm this, clearly I'm that." It's yeah, now I have this queer friend group. And I'm like: "Where has this come from?" But, I had friends at uni who admitted themselves that they were quite homophobic and transphobic. They would turn over the TV if two guys started kissing, but they'd keep the TV on if it was two girls kissing, for example. And with that sort of friendship, I'm like, "Okay", but then now the years have gone, now they're a fierce supporter of trans rights. And they've told me and my other queer friends: "It's because of you, and because of your strong principles and also sticking by us and knowing that it's just ignorance, that I've learned so much from you." Just by my existence, I'm sort of proving to them that it's not this icky, weird, rebellious thing, it's just a natural, normal thing to be. I'm trying to think of all the times I've actually come out. I can't really think of things. It’s often just: "Oh, you know, yeah, I'm queer." And then I don't know, I don't really pay attention to people's responses after that.
And you mentioned briefly that you feel that you're being non-binary and you're being bi are connected? Do you think there is a connection there for you personally? What do you think?
Yeah, I think for me, personally, definitely, there is a connection there. I feel like being non-binary, does have... And obviously there are non-binary people that are lesbians, and they're non-binary people that are gay, or only attracted to one gender. But for me, being non-binary, I've never understood this idea of looking at someone, and not finding them attractive or whatever it is because of their gender, their gender identity. And so that's never really made sense to me. I guess, in the same way that a straight person, when they look a bi person or gay person, they don't understand it, they don't get it. But it's never ever made sense to me that you look at someone and you think: "Oh, because they're a guy, I'm not attracted to them. And I can't see myself with them or having a meaningful relationship with them." I've never understood that because I'm so bi. But I really am just attracted to anyone and anyone, anyone and everyone. And obviously, there are other bi people, that are cis, that that must apply to as well. Yeah, being non-binary is something a bit new to me, but I'm sort of grappling with as well. But it's always been there for me, this rejection of gender. And I think bi-ness fits in with that, because it is a rejection of gender preference. Basically, for me, that's how I would define bi-ness, really, for myself, personally. I know it's different for others. But then for me, it's this rejection that gender is the be all and end all. And I think that's why queerness comes into it, because it is quite political to say that gender is meaningless. And it really does not have an effect on whether I find someone attractive.
Do you think being non-binary and bi affects the responses that you have when people learn of your sexuality? Or even of your gender identity? Do you feel like people respond differently because of that?
I think non-binary is a new term for a lot of people. So I think a lot of people might be able to get their head around the fact that someone is bi, but maybe not around the fact that someone's non-binary. And so I don't know, I guess it is for protection and survival that I have surrounded myself with people who don't care what you are. And I surrounded myself with queer people and surrounded myself with people that are very much open to things. So I can't remember the last time I sort of met a straight person and had this sort of awkward almost like movie sort of style thing, where you have to be like: "Oh, they like girls." "Oh, okay," sort of thing. It's never like that for me I can't actually remember the last time, thinking about it now, I had to come out to a straight person.
And do feel like you ever would want to tell the members of your family that don't already know about your sexuality? Or is that very much a done deal?
Well, I mean, they all have me on Facebook, they can find me on Instagram very easily. And if someone was to message me, saying: "Hey, how you doing? Blah, Blah." You know, "Have you got a boyfriend? Have you got a husband?" Depending on who it was, I don't know how I'd react to it really. Because a lot of my family from that side will tell me that they love me no matter what, and that they'll always be there for me. But then they're the same people that I've heard have such homophobic views in the past. And they come from a background of very strict conservative values. So I would love to be that representation, as I am with the Turkish side of my family. And I'm very open, I have my hairy legs out, for example, I'm very open that I have a girlfriend. And I think that's really important for especially the youth and my family. But in terms of the Asian side, and specifically the Pakistani side, I just feel it would just hurt them more than anything. I think they would genuinely be more hurt than anything. But I just don't like them as people, being blunt about it. They're sexist, they're racist, they're homophobic. They’re basically abusive. Why would I want to put myself in a situation where I have to come out to them and be like: "I'm gay. You've got this gay person here?" If they wanted to know about me, they've got my number, they’ve got my Facebook, they've got my Instagram. Please come and follow me and learn about my life. But I don't think they're interested. And that's fine. You don't have to be interested.
And you mentioned that you're with a girlfriend now?
Yes, I do.
Have people's interactions or responses towards you been different when you've been with a boyfriend or a girlfriend? Have you noticed?
Oh yeah, definitely. Take, for example, just an interaction that happened quite recently. My girlfriend and I were at the train station just holding hands. And we're not subtle as a couple, I'm Brown, usually with big hair. Sometimes I wear a head scarf. And in the middle of Birmingham, and she’s this six foot something, very dark skinned black woman. So we stand out basically when we go around together. And we're walking down the street, we're walking up to (the) train station, sorry. And these international young men they just started staring at us and pointing at me like: "Gay! Gay! Gay!" [LAUGHTER] And we just looked at each other, and we're just like: "Yes! Yes! Yes we are! Well done!" So it was this weird sort of, "Were you genuinely just asking, or were you surprised to see it... or?" It didn't feel like a hate crime or anything like that. But it was one of the weirder experiences I've had. Whereas when I've been with guys, it's never questioned. You never get pointed out on the street. "Oh my gosh, straight, straight, straight!" That's a very physical, visceral sort of example. But we do have to prepare ourselves, if we're going out on the more conservative areas of Birmingham that are very predominantly Muslim. When we go for desert down Stoney lane, which is a very conservative Muslim area. And so [my girlfriend] and I, I literally get out (of) the car and we're holding hands. And I say to her: "There is a possibility that someone may say something, or someone may even, worst case scenario, attack us." So we do have to be on our guard. Whereas if I was with an ex, (a) dude, I don't think it would be the same visceral reaction. Because homosexuality, especially in the Muslim community, is frowned upon, basically. More and more though, I'm finding queer community in the Muslim faith, which is been incredibly interesting. There are whole organisations dedicated to queer Muslims. Which is fun.
So yeah, there's definitely been visceral differences. And, obviously, dating girls in school, that got some very heated reactions in an all-girl school. And I remember people not being my friend, people not speaking to me, when they found out. People being very angry and upset about it. And then what's interesting is the same girls that effectively bullied me for being gay and having a gay relationship at that time. They are now the girls that are gay. And you see them on Facebook in the gay clubs and you see them on Instagram, whatever. And it's very interesting that those same girls are the ones that were gay, you know? And whereas when I was in a relationship with a guy at school, there was no question about it.
Hypothetically, do you feel there is a divide or a difference between the responses that a bisexual non-binary person would get to say a bisexual, cis-gendered woman or a bisexual man? Do you think there is a divide from the kind of responses that different genders get?
I think less with women and non-binary and trans people, but I've definitely heard from men in the bi community. That they often get a lot of comments like: "Well, you're just gay." or "You're just straight and you're just confused", or whatever. And again, because gender is a complete social construct. It makes complete sense that someone who was assigned male at birth and identifies with being a guy, would feel the same way that I do. That gender doesn't make any sense and it, genders doesn't matter to them. And so it makes complete sense, but for some people, for some reason, they see women as being, I guess, more of a sexual object. And so they can just be sexually frivolous. Whereas guys, it's either gay or straight. And that's it. So I think in terms of trans non-binary people, I think it's very much accepted, in my queer community anyway. But I know that some (bi) guys have told me that they find it very difficult and people thought that they were gay for 20 years. And then suddenly, they realise that it's okay to be bi and bi guys exist. But I think it takes a bit longer for them to come to that realisation, maybe. And then women who are told to explore your sexuality, this idea of being bi curious, from dating apps that I've seen. That’s actually a really good point, I've just thought of this now. When you go on dating apps, 'bi curious' is almost always people that are presenting as women. I've never seen a guy say "I'm bi curious."
Are you aware of any words or phrases or stereotypes that are associated with people in the bi community?
Yeah, I'd say the stereotypes are we're 'greedy,' that we can't choose, that were confused. And with the men of the Bi community, you're actually straight or you're actually gay. And I think for some reason, there's this idea of perversion and bi-ness that comes together. And people think that we're sex crazed maniacs. Which some of us are, but no more or no less than the straight community or the gay community. Other things, maybe more androgynous? Yeah, I'd say that's probably it.
And are there any stereotypes or phrases that you've heard, particularly for bisexuals who are non-binary or trans?
I can't think of anything that's specific.
But what do you understand by the term 'bierasure'?
So for me, I guess it fits in with this idea of being bi curious. And how, if you watch a TV show, and a girl is dating a guy, but then she sees this really beautiful girl and is like: "Oh, I want to try something with her." And then goes and tries something and enjoys it or whatever but then in the end, it's just like: "Oh, no, that was just, that was nothing, I’m just gonna go back to my normal life." I'd kind of say that that was bi erasure. That person is most likely bi, but (th) media, they don't really know how to write about bi-ness, maybe. There’s a lack of bi characters in movies and films, there's a lack of music that talks about both genders or a variety of different genders. It's always either a straight person talking about how much they love the opposite gender, and very occasionally, you've got gay people singing about not the opposite gender. But very rarely do you get bi representation within popular media. I think I'd like to do more research in terms of how to quantify bi erasure. But things like Freddie Mercury, for example, the idea that celebrities, they're bi, but because it's easier, I guess, to write them as gay or straight. Maybe because of the stereotypes that a bi person is strange or there's something or odd about being bi. That you don't want this popular figure, this genius, basically, to be bi. It's easier to just say: "Yeah, they're gay." And so, as a bi person, I didn't even know that Freddie Mercury was bi. Because I'm part of the bi community, that's why I started learning about it. And like: "Oh, did you know that Freddie Mercury was actually bi? Ian Curtis was actually bi?"
If you watch the documentary about him. I guess this isn't exactly bierasure, because it does touch on it. But he's in bed with all different sorts of people. I guess it's just that it's never explicitly discussed. That's how I look at it.
And if you knew you were going to watch a programme, or go to the theatre or see a film that you knew was going to have a bisexual character in it, what would you want to see?
I think maybe just living a normal life. Just normal struggles. Having some humility about them, having personality and character that isn't necessarily always tied up with who they're dating. I know that I'm bi and that it is an everyday part of my life. Because I have a girlfriend and I'm involved in the queer community, and bi community specifically. But I think just having the normal sort of relationship problems, friendship problems. Maybe not even relationship problems. Maybe they're just in a nice, healthy relationship. And that it's more the friendship problems and the problems of the world. Because ultimately, that is what we're going through at the moment. But also, if it was a single bi person, just everyday struggles of dating, and having to use Tinder and having to use all these sorts of things. I think it would be nice to see a brown person as bisexual, because a lot of that just doesn't get talked about, the intersections. Black bisexuals, brown bisexuals, religious bisexuals as well. You know, it's not really discussed. I don't know if that sounds selfish. Just like someone like me, you know?
I didn't think that's selfish in the slightest. I think that's perfectly fair. Are there any responses or interactions you've had regarding your sexuality that have been really positive? That have made you feel celebrated, welcomed and accepted?
Well the whole Birmingham bi group. I moved to Birmingham around three years ago. And one of the first things I did was get on a coach with them and head to bi camp. And for me sorry, just getting a bit emotional. [LAUGHTER] But for me, stepping off that bus and we rented a whole scout camp and it was just us. And so it was, what, 100 bi people just living their best lives, and seeing all different shapes of people or different styles. And as soon as everyone stepped on the bus, the bi flags got whipped out and everyone just got changed into what they wanted to get changed into. Glitter came out. Just for me, that changed my life really. Just being with bi other people.
And maybe just my friends being so open about it, my best friends especially. Even at a young age, when I said, "I'm dating girls," or "I'm bi." they were always behind me and were always just: “You're valid and it's not fair that you're being bullied." I think the complete acceptance is probably the biggest thing.
Do you feel that racism comes into the responses you get sometimes?
Yeah, especially dating my girlfriend. Being brown, I guess, most of the time I can pass a straight. Which I don't like doing, I like being confusing. But especially in like a Muslim area, I do have to keep myself safe first of all. But yeah, I think that there are definitely intersections. And I hope that I have conveyed that within my answers, my responses. Because I don't think that anything is all about bi, or all about being queer. There are these intersections, overlaps, and also junctures where you can't escape that. If we were two white women standing in that in the train station. Would those guys have seen us and would we have been so visible? I think that's what I was trying to get at. That we are hyper visible because of our skin colours. And I like that, because I like that we're visible. But also it's a lot, to be an interracial queer couple. And I think it's the same with Black couples I know. And it's difficult. So I really hope that I've conveyed the intersectionality and thinking about those overlaps is really important and you can't escape from it.