‘A lot of people assume that you're going to cheat’
Pronouns: he / him
Content warning: references to biphobia and homophobia
Names have been changed and redacted to protect anonymity
In terms of your own sexuality, or gender identity, how do you self-describe?
So bisexual or queer. And cis man.
And in terms of your sexuality, are there any terms that you feel very strongly aligned to? Or do you feel there are any terms that you really aren't fond of, for any reason?
I don't think there's anything I'm not fond of. I get a little bit weirded out when people I don't know will use ‘gay’ and think it's an umbrella term. Because it's also a term in of itself and it can be quite erasing at times. But no, I like bisexual. I don't mind pansexual, I don't tend to use it myself, but it doesn't bother me if someone called me pansexual. I quite like queer. Queer, I quite like it because I feel it like encapsulates more than just my sexuality. It feels like it's also my gender expression and also encapsulates my cultural background and stuff as well. So yeah, I feel like it describes me more as our whole person and not just my sexual orientation.
And do you mind my asking, when did you first become aware of your sexuality?
So that's a complicated question! [LAUGHTER] I was definitely aware that I was not straight when I was about maybe 10 or 11. I didn't know the term for that, I didn't know bisexual existed. I only really knew straight and the 'other one that's wrong: gay'. So, for me, I was aware of it, but I was so in denial about it, that I was not aware of it to some extent as well, because I was like, "Well, I like that girl, So I'm clearly straight and that's clearly just hormones, or puberty or whatever." And that just kept going on until I reached about 17. When I first learned the word 'bi-curious', I was like, "Oh, maybe that's what I am". But then everyone was like, "that's not a real thing". And I was like, "Okay, I guess that's not what I am". And I found ways to deny it to myself, "I'm still attracted to girls. Would I ever actually date a man or have sex with a man?" Especially because a lot of the male influences in my life weren't positive. So I was like, "Well, why would I want to be anywhere close to these kinds of people, let alone date them?" So it was a lot of that. And it wasn't until I really reached about 23/24 that I actually became romantically attracted to a man. I was like, "Well, I guess that's the end of that road! Can't deny that anymore! Yeah I'm bi I guess, that's the one that works!" So it's kind of a weird, complicated story of being sort of semi aware and not letting myself be aware until I couldn't deny it, basically. [LAUGHTER]
Is coming out part of your experience?
Yeah, definitely. So, it wasn't until I came out at 24 did I actually accept it myself. Really, until I verbalised the words, I was still in denial. Because I am always quite feminine. I use the word feminine, but it's weird, I like the word feminine, but 'what actually is feminine? And why do people use feminine?' And it's quite archaic: "Oh, you're emotional, and you have long hair." And, I guess that's feminine? What? But because of that, a lot of people assumed I was gay. And I was like, "Well, no, I'm straight." And so people knew I was straight, because I would talk about girls I was attracted to. So yeah, coming out was definitely something I had to do and I had to say to people, even when I came out to my family, it was very much like, "Oh, we didn't realise that you were attracted to people like that." So yeah, it was a very interesting experience, I guess. So I didn't actually come out until I romantically fell in love with my best friend who is a straight guy. So that went as badly as you can expect. I found out that this guy was actually talking (about me) behind my back. So that relationship that fell apart completely.
I'm so sorry.
That was a fun year, we don't talk about that year anymore. [LAUGHTER] But I started coming out to more and more people, sort of close friends and family members. And it was complicated, because obviously, that friendship fell apart. And then because he was so intrinsically tied to a lot of my other friends, that meant that a lot of those friendships fell apart, which was incredibly difficult. And it's one of those things where a lot of people are accepting of your queer identity, but don't seem to understand the baggage that can come with being queer and don't accept that part of you. So they don't accept the fact that that could come with depression and anxiety,and all of that stuff. As a tangent, I came out to my sister first and then came out to my mum (at the) end of 2017, so at that point I was 25. Came out to my mom and she didn't expect it at all. I thought that she might hate me, because that was the thing I was nervous about. Because I knew that my parents weren't the most accepting of queer identities, they had a whole host of homophobic tendencies. And so I asked her if she hated me. And she went "I don't hate you, but I'm not happy." And that was kind of the best I could hope for, if I'm honest. And she gave me a hug and stuff. But it was really difficult. I hadn't been talking to my dad for unrelated reasons. So I didn't actually tell him. I told my mom to tell him, but a couple of weeks later, she was like, "Oh, he actually knows anyway, because he found out from your Twitter." Which is what I was using as a safe space at that point, because I wasn't out to them in person. And I was like, "Well, I could talk to people online. And I don't have people follow me on Twitter, so I can talk about it there." Like within Facebook, where my friends actually are. So I was using that as a bit of a safe space and finding people and connecting to people. But yeah, I then found out my dad found out from my Twitter, he's not a social media person, I later on found out that my cousins had stumbled up on my Twitter, and outed me to him.
And that's when my brother then found out because my sister and my mom were having an argument with my dad over this. My brother was like, "What the hell's going on?" And at that point, my brother found out. My brother and sister were quite accepting. But again, the whole baggage of being queer and in the closet all that time, they didn't seem to really comprehend or really take time to comprehend. So they don't understand why I feel certain ways or go through certain things or have this sort of trauma. They think trauma is quite a strong word. And I'm like "But it is trauma because you're in the closet." So yeah, it's just very complicated. And I've found a lot of people who are straight cis people who are accepting, don't actually fully get it. They're just like, "Oh, you're queer, that's great." But then they'll say certain things and you're like "You don't actually accept this. You're just tolerating it at best."
So for example, when I first came out on Facebook, my cousin was very accepting. But then we were at a party and she was erasing of identities. And we were talking about (it) and she was like "Oh, yeah, gay, whatever." And I was like, "Well, I'm not gay, I'm bi." She was like, "You know, same thing." And I was like "It's not the same thing." And she was like "Well, if you had to say which one you liked more, you would probably..." And I was like "No, I am.... That's not how it works!" And she kept pushing it until I got very strong handed with it and she was like "Oh, okay," and got very upset at me being offended. I got into a bit of a disagreement with my mom, because I was doing something that she thought was 'for girls.' Not my sexuality, I basically had Mehndi on my hand, which she said was for girls. And I got upset with her. And basically, that prompted a conversation where my cousin was like, "You have to understand, no one wants their son to be gay. No one wants that for their child. But you know, if it happens we'll be accepting of it." And I'm like "That's literally the opposite of accepting. If you are literally not wanting your child to turn out a certain way, they're going to pick up on that, they're not going to get it. They're going to know that they can't come out to you. And they're going to stay closeted because you're actually not accepting." And she said this whilst holding her one year old, which was incredibly upsetting. And at the same time, my sister was having a conversation with her husband, "Oh, you can let your child play with dolls." And he gave her the dirtiest look of like: "I would never let my son play with dolls." You're already gonna make your child go into this very archaic version of what a man is. Not great. But it is what it is, I guess.
Do you mind my asking, are your parents religious at all?
I would say semi religious. I wouldn't say that religion really factors into it. It's more cultural. I can show you a little temple there.
Oh beautiful!
So we're Hindu, but I think it's more the British Indian culture. Because Indian culture and British Indian culture are quite different. Indian culture has changed quite a bit. But I think a lot of it is holding on to these archaic versions of their culture that they've brought over when they came to this country. And they're not willing to let go of, because if they do they feel like they'll lose a part of themselves. India has become a lot more accepting in some, in some respects. Still a long way to go, but it's different now. So it's interesting, people think that queerness is a bit of a white thing in some ways. But I think it's a lot of cultural pain. I know when I asked my mom what my dad thought about it, one of the things they said was, "You know, he's fine with it, but he just doesn't want everyone else to find out." (She) was obviously hiding the fact that everyone else did know, but it's one of those things of like, there's a big cultural shame within Indian culture. It's very much "We don't want anyone gossiping about us. We don't want anyone to look badly on us." It's a lot about keeping up an image and not having that come under disrepute, basically.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
It's okay, I'm a stronger person for it.
Have relationships with your family improved now or are they kind of the same, do you mind my asking?
In some ways but falling apart in a lot of different ways, not necessarily because of my queerness. But that does play a part because they don't fully understand why, for example, I don't talk to my dad, and the trauma there. And a lot of that is to do with me being closeted and my dad wanting me to act a certain way, and I was feminine or too girly for him. And they don't seem to understand that I was actually closeted that whole time, and that caused a lot of harm to me. So, it's certain things like that, which I don't think they will fully understand. And it's just not good enough. And I don't want to keep going around in circles and them to be like, "We're accepting!" And then when things come up, they're like, "Why are you acting like that?" And it's like, "Because of this," if you're not willing to get it, you need to get it, you need to understand it. It's all quite difficult. But I would say there's some areas where they have improved. I'm moving in with my boyfriend, and my mom was quite happy when I told her I have a boyfriend, which is not what I expected at all, she was like, "Oh, yay!" And she was just happy that I finally was in a relationship, to be honest! [LAUGHTER] Yeah, it was really good. So yes, in some ways, it's definitely been an improvement. And in other ways, it's kind of accepting the fact that they won't ever fully comprehend what it means to be queer. I'm coming to terms with that, I guess.
And when you have spoken to other people, like friends or colleagues, what kind of responses have you had?
So with friends it's all been largely positive. But obviously, a lot of those friendships kind of fell apart anyway. And a lot of my friends now are from the LGBTQ+ community. I actually joke that I think I only had two straight friends. And then one of them was like, "Oh, I think I might actually be bi/bi curious." And I was like, "the agenda is working!" [LAUGHTER] And so I only have one straight friend left. Of course they're all accepting because they're all queer people anyway!
And, obviously, as I entered the LGBT community, I did find some people who are a little bit bi-phobic in some ways, either heavily or very light, not fully getting what bisexuality means. Then that was just simple, "Then you won't be my friend, goodbye!" [LAUGHTER]
Saves time, doesn't it!
Yeah exactly! So, it's a lot easier after you come out and finding if you're going out with the idea, 'this is who I am.' And find people who understand that from the get go. You weed them out a lot easier. And in terms of colleagues, I mean I came out to colleagues a lot later. I didn't experience anything overtly negative. So software companies, they tend to be very male dominated, and then they've created a 'banter' culture. And after I gave a talk on Bivisibility day at my workplace about bisexuality, and the issues that we go through. What I did experience is one of them asking about 'Straight Pride'. And he was like, "Oh, then you're being discriminatory towards straight people." And afterwards, I reported him to HR and HR were very good about it and went down to talk to him. And they were like "What you want to do? Do you want to do a grievance, do you want us to just give him a talking to?' I was like "Just give him a talking to for now and we'll see what happens." And he apologised to me, and he apologised to them. But his explanation was, "Oh, I was just giving a bit of banter." And that is the problem with banter culture. Banter culture is so heavily rooted in bigotry, and we don't unpack that. So most of it was positive. But you do realise that you become a little bit of an encyclopaedia I guess, people treat you like a little bit of an encyclopaedia.
So like you're the ‘spokesperson’ person (of bisexuality)?
Yeah. And people will then start asking you questions about everything, not just bisexuality but other stuff too. And it's like, "I don't have all the answers. But you know what does? There's this little device in your pocket! And it has this great invention called Google, just type it in!" [LAUGHTER] It's hard, because in my spare time I do do a lot of stuff in the bisexual space. I write, and I do talks and panels and stuff like that. But at the same time, it's like: "Hi, I'm trying to do my actual job here. [LAUGHTER] I'm not getting paid to teach you, if the company is gonna pay me to actually do a talk, I'll do that! That's fine." [LAUGHTER] But it's like asking me questions about non-binary and stuff. And I'm like, "I can answer that to the best of my ability. But actually, the best way to do it is go speak to a non-binary person, not me."
And the responses you had, when you have come out to people, do you think that is affected by the fact you are a bisexual guy?
Yeah. I think a lot of it is, like with my cousin, "Which one are you going to lean more towards?" A lot of people think that sexuality is still binary. And a lot of people think that bisexuality is just a combination of gay and straight. And when it comes to bisexual women, they tend to get more accepted, but it's not really acceptance, it's fetishization. And they tend to be seen as more 'straight' because they go: "Well, you know, you're just dabbling with women to get the attention of men." With bisexual men, it's: "No, you're gay." [LAUGHTER] And it's weird, it's very much centred around the dick. [LAUGHTER] It's very phallic. Somehow the attraction towards men always seems to trump everything else. And they always go, "Well, then you must be gay!" And that is definitely what I've experienced. A lot of people will say that, and then especially when anyone hears that I've had more experiences with men. Now the only reason I have more experiences with men is because I had more doubt on my attraction to men, and I was like, "Well, let me try it and see!" With women I was like, "No, I think I'll be fine with that." [LAUGHTER] But anal sex is a lot more involved, so to speak. I was like, "I need to feel like I'm down for this." But no, a lot of people will go: "Yeah, you're gay. You just need to admit it to yourself." Actually because I am perceived as more feminine, they'll go: "Well, you're clearly gay. Come on, what woman's going to want a guy like that?" So yeah, it's a lot of that. Yeah, it's definitely different, I would say between the genders. And it's interesting the way it plays out.
And how about when they see you with your boyfriend, or they know you have a boyfriend, does that make the situation worse? What do you find with that?
It's interesting because, right now, I've never actually been out with my boyfriend, in terms of being around friends and stuff, because of the fact that our relationship only started in lockdown. So, we only started at the beginning of lockdown. So, it's hard to see how it would be. I would definitely say that it would play into it more, because I noticed that when I was talking to people about being bi, a few people who were around were like, "Oh, I'm bi too." And then other people were like, "Wait you're bi? But you're with a man!" And they were just so confused. So, I can almost guarantee I would get the exact same thing. And I know that I post a lot about me and my boyfriend online. And I just know that there's going to be trolls out there like: "Well you're, you're with a guy, so just say you're gay, just admit it." Well, I haven't really got a lot of that response yet, because of the fact that it's (just) been out for walks and stuff with him. But, I never had to be at a party with random people. I haven't had that experience yet because of Lockdown. But I will keep you posted on that!
Are you aware of any stereotypes or words or phrases that are used against bisexual people?
Yeah, I literally wrote a seven-part blog of random questions that you get asked based around bi stereotypes. So, one of them is, 'bisexuality is only attraction to men and women', which isn't true. A lot of people will say bisexuality is 'easier because you can pass a straight', which every single statistic in the world says isn't true. Because we have higher rates of depression, anxiety, suicide, self harm, etc. A lot of people will say bisexual men are actually gay. A lot of people will say bisexual women are actually straight. They will say that 'but bisexual non-binary isn't a thing' because it's men and women. So yeah,I know so many, actually, let me just pull it up, let me find the page. So these are the ones I wrote down. "So which one do you like more: men or women?" Because they always assume that you have a preference. "So, you've never been with a woman, so how do you know?" "Do you want a threesome?" That always goes towards women, because cis straight men are disgusting, they are the pits. Oh, yeah, "What if I date you and you leave me for man?" A lot of people assume that you're gonna cheat, a lot of people assume that you are polyamorous. And there's nothing wrong with being polyamorous. There's nothing wrong with being sexually liberated. But that doesn't make us cheaters, that doesn't make us worse, it doesn't mean that we can't commit. Because it's like a misunderstanding of what polyamory is as well. It's the misunderstanding of open relationships, which aren't a bad thing they're just a different form of relationship. The: "You're with a man now. So does that mean you're gay?" People will say that your relationship status is based on who you're with. And, "does it mean that you like trans people?" Because they assume that we only like cis men and women, which I've seen randomly online before. Well, even if you're saying men and women, where does it say 'cis' in there? Yeah, there's a lot of different stereotypes like that. I don't know if I mentioned that I am writing a book and I'm putting a lot of this stuff into it. So, I made a hashtag trend last year, which I actually made two years ago called #bisexualmenexist. And then after that trended a person got in touch with me, they saw some of my writing and stuff. And then I got a book deal and I'm currently writing a book all around bisexual men. So putting in a lot of the stereotypes about how we're 'secretly gay', about how we 'have it easier,' about how we're 'gonna cheat,' how a lot of bisexual men I spoke to were like, "Yeah, if you get together with a woman, they're like, 'oh, you're going back in the closet?'" And it's like, "Huh? No, do you not understand what bisexual means? Please understand what it means." [LAUGHTER] But yeah, so a lot of stuff like that.
Are you aware of the term 'bi erasure?'
Yes. To me, it means it's when someone decides to erase someone's bisexual or pansexual, multi gender attraction identity, and place them into either 'gay or straight'. That's what it means to me. And it works on different levels. So obviously it can be (on an) individual level. Actually, someone uses a different term for that, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. But someone actually made a different term for when it's on an individual level. Because they don't like the word ‘bi erasure’, because it sounds like it's something that you're doing to yourself. And so they use this different term to make it more obvious about the fact that it's something that someone is taking away from you by force. But yeah, it happens on that level, and also a structural level. I actually saw a great Pink News article the other day, which is clear bi erasure, it was: "Blah, blah, blah, comes out as bisexual, marked as a win for the gays." Win for the who? 'Bisexual win for the gays.' So yeah on a structural level, and it's interesting, because like it happens on very different levels. And it can happen in a lot of different ways. Because, for example, you will see a lot of things which will be like 'gay and bi', but they won't actually have any bi people involved and won't do anything to actually help the bi people. It's all very gay focused, but they'll think 'gay and bi'. You might have a group and they'll be called 'queer', but they'll only involve gay people. And stuff like that, where it happens on the organisation level, on a structural level, but also on an individual level.
And when you've experienced it yourself, how's that made you feel? In any of those many forms.
In a structural and organisational level, incredibly frustrated, and maddening really. It makes me furious, I'm just like, "You're doing this again? How many times do we have to tell you to stop doing this?" They'll say LGBTQ+, and it's like, "Okay, there's zero bi people. what part of that means LGBTQ+ to you?" So that's really infuriating. On an individual level, it can make me angry, but it can also be very upsetting at times. Sometimes it's not even on an individual level where it happens to me, but it will happen in my vicinity to someone else. I've been in like LGBTQ+ venues before, and someone will point out someone and be like, "Oh my God, look, it's a straight couple." And I'll be like "You've just erased like five different identities that they could actually be, they could be both non-binary, they could be both trans, they could be by bisexual, they could be both asexual, aromantic. There are so many different things that they could be and you jumped straight from a couple, which looks like a man and a woman together, and just pinned it as 'straight'". And I'm like, "Okay." And that ends up being quite upsetting, because I'm like, "Well, if I ever get together with a woman," that was when I was single, "If I ever get together with a woman, I can never come to this space with her. Even if she is bi herself, I can never come to this space with her, because I will immediately get that kind of response." So yeah, it can be maddening, but also upsetting.
So if you knew a new TV show was going to come out, or a new play, and you knew there was going to be a bi character in it, what would you want to see?
I would really want to see the bi character played by a bi person. I would like to see that the people behind the scenes are also bi, so some of the writers or producers or directors. Someone involved in the project is actually bi. I would really like to see something different from a white bi women, because I think that tends to be a lot of the representation of bi people. I would like to see the word actually used because I don't think the word ever gets used. There's a great one of that actually, have you ever wanted 'Dead to Me' on Netflix? So in the first season, she was together with this man, and that was her whole relationship. But in the second season, she gets together with a woman. And a lot of people have raised that as like, "Oh, now she's become lesbian." And it's like "Well, actually, she's bi because she was attracted to the man." And they never use the word. And I think every time you don't use the word, you leave ambiguity that creates room for debate that always causes erasure. And people don't seem to understand that, because you will then get a producer saying, "Oh well see the way that we did it, we did that 'coming out'. And we felt like we didn't need to say the word, we didn't need to say any of the words, we don't need the labels. We can just 'be'". And I'm like, "That's great, but we don't live in that perfect world where we could just do that." Because all that happens is they go "She's with a woman now. She is now a lesbian." We're like "No, she's bi." And it's like "Well, you don't know that. She hasn't said bi. So she's with a woman, so she's lesbian." And they don't understand how that leaves bisexual people out in the cold and how they don't get the representation they so desire. But yeah, very tired of it always being a cis white woman, I would love to see more people of colour represented. More men or more non-binary people represented. Because I've think we've seen enough of that, I can name quite a few bi women but I can name maybe one bi man, which I don't think is great. It also needs to be really positive. I think so much gets bogged down in like, 'now they've come out, let's have them talk about sexuality and then there be the whole thing and that's it." And they just keep going on and on about it. And it's like "Actually no they can just come out and then they do it and then we move on. And then we see them date people of different genders." I think that's also something that falls apart, they will come out, and then they will only exclusively date people of the same gender now. I think that becomes a bit of a problem, because you're still bi and they've said the word. It's not realistic, bi people date people of different genders. So why are they not only dating women? Wow, yeah, whatever. So I think that would be great. It definitely needs to be positive, it shouldn't fall on stereotypes. I mean, so much of it falls on stereotypes. And that can be incredibly exhausting.
Have you seen any good representations?
Rosa Diaz in 'Brooklyn 99' -It's yet to be seen whether she will actually go and date a man again, because so far she's only dated women since coming out. But we've seen her date men, we've seen her date women, we've seen her come out. And now it's put in as a bit of a joke sometimes or not in a negative way. There's an episode where one of the characters is like, "Oh, yeah, how... we need to find you some 'them' to date." And she's like "It sounds like you just read a book about how to speak to your bisexual friends!" He's like, "Maybe." [LAUGHTER] -which is great. There’s been some, which, it's been positive, but also it does fall into this trap of like, "that's going to be their whole, whole schtick.' Like 'Jane The Virgin' had two. One of which is a bisexual man, one of which was a bisexual woman. Actually, they didn't have to explain their whole sexuality and stuff. But it was really interesting to see them come to terms with their identity, what does it mean to them? It was interesting, because they have been with a man and now they were falling in love with a woman. And I was quite scared that it was just gonna be 'now she's a lesbian.' And it was like "You were literally fully obsessed with that man, so fully obsessed. How does that work?" And then she actually said the word 'bisexual', and she got together with a woman and it was all really nice and positive. The bisexual man, he was only a like side character. So he was in the show, he came out, he ended up having a conversation with his girlfriend, because his girlfriend was like, "I don't understand what this means." And it was actually really positive, because it had that kind of question/answer, where he reassured her and explained it to her in a really positive way. And then they kind of moved on from it. But then unfortunately, a couple of episodes later, he was written out of the show, not because of his identity, but because he was like, "Oh, I got a job somewhere else," and then left. Though I think that's really important as well, having long standing representation, not just representation that kind of happens in the show, and then they disappear. 'Sex Education' has been really great as well. There's like a pansexual woman of colour and a bisexual man. So it's great.
Oh, amazing.
Yeah. So those are the really good ones. But representation has gotten a lot better. Because I'm writing about representation in my book as well, I'm just like: 'Here's all the instances where someone went from 'straight to gay'" and that's really frustrating. Willow in 'Buffy', who could have easily been bisexual, and actually Joss Whedon has come out since and was like, "Yeah, I was gonna make her bisexual, but people were clearly not ready for it." Because people were saying " no, it looks like she's closeted, or whatever." And I'm like, "Urgh! We could have had that representation, and that actually would have helped me as a child!"
[LAUGHTER] Yeah. Did you have any other examples?
No, I think that's it. But I think representation has gotten a lot better. But it, historically, has been so incredibly poor. Because so many times the representation will be on tropes, and they'll be really negative and they'll be like the villainous character or they'll be evil or they'll be like, somebody who has sex with literally anything that moves. Or, again, have a sexually liberated bisexual character, great! Having a bisexual character is like, "Oh my god, I love that person who's 70 years older than me!" It’s just fucking weird! Can you just not do that for once!
Have you ever told anyone and they've had a fantastic positive reaction? What would you say is a positive reaction?
Yeah, when I was coming out a lot of my friends at the time were very positive. Obviously, we're not friends anymore, but they were all very positive about it. They were all like, "I'm accepting of you. Yeah, that's great. That's wonderful." A couple of them were queer themselves, so they were like, "Welcome to the club!" So that was all really great. One of my friends, and she was really funny, because she was like, "Okay, do you want a medal?" [LAUGHTER] I was like: "What?!" And she was just like "It doesn't make a difference to me, good for you. That's great." And after, she apologised and she was like "I know it was a really big moment for you, but I didn't even know what to say. I was like, you're still [you]. I mean, that's great, but okay! You didn't need to tell me that." So that was really interesting. But then since then, it's so upfront that I'm bisexual, so I don't really tend to get a big positive reaction because I'm in queer spaces anyway. So it's like "I'm bisexual," and it's like "Oh, cool." It’s just a thing a lot of the time, which, I guess, is positive in its own way. Similarly with my boyfriend, I told him and it was just a non-thing. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm bisexual," and like, "Cool." But then he's been really supportive and positive about it, which is nice. My friends now, every time I do a big thing, a big panel or a big 'this', it'll be "We're so proud of you. You're doing so great. Yes, the bisexual icon. Yes!" [LAUGHTER] My boyfriend's really positive about it. He's like, "Oh, my beautiful bisexual boyfriend." So it's all heart-warming.
Where do you feel most confident expressing your sexuality? In what spaces or communities have you found that you can be yourself?
I really like queer people of colour spaces. Mainly because I feel like I can just be the whole of myself in that space, whereas sometimes in LGBTQ spaces I feel a bit awkward. But even in those spaces, sometimes they aren't fully accepting of being bi. But a lot of it's really great, really positive. I meet other bi people of colour, and that's really nice because we get to have similar conversations and stuff. So those are kind of my favourite spaces. Or something like UK Black Pride, for example, is like one of my favourite spaces. But and also stuff like Bi Pride, so, bi specific spaces is really great, because you can just like go in there like, "Wow, I can be attracted to everyone in this room, but they call all be attracted to me. Yes!" [LAUGHTER] So it's like really nice being in spaces like that. But I think it's difficult because when you're both bisexual and a person of colour, it can be really hard to fit into just one space. So, it's kind of going into multiple spaces and taking from it what you can, finding the good people in that space and spending time with them. Also, it's building your own community; like my close friend group are all very great and really accepting of it. And so, it's nice to sort of hang out with them and go to, back when we could, go to parks and bars and all that kind of stuff.
Finding queer people of colour and communities within that, is that hard in the UK?
I think in London it's easier, but it's still not easy. I think the problem that I've found is that a lot of our spaces are very much owned and dominated by white queer people. And when I say white queer people, it tends to be cis white gay man more than anything. All of our clubs and our bars (are) like 90 percent white, cis gay men. And that can be quite unsettling at times, because I'm going to feel a little bit out of place. Sometimes you're going to get 'looks' and you're like, "Oh, I don't know how to feel." What I do find is that in London, there's a lot of great communities and a lot of great groups and a lot of great people doing a lot of great stuff like, UK Black Pride, there's Hungama, there's Club Kali. So there's south Asian stuff, east Asian stuff, black stuff. There's a lot of great little communities, and a lot of variation in that. So, there's community groups where like you just gather round for (a) drink, there's stuff where it's a club night, stuff like 'Bitter Peach' and 'Cocoa Butter Club', which are queer people of colour cabaret nights, like 'Bitter Peach' is like pan Asian, and 'Cocoa Butter club' tends to be more black people, but is varied as well. All of that stuff is great, but what I find is that they're (a)'one night a month' kind of a deal, or 'once every couple of weeks' kind of a deal. And it's run on a shoestring budget by a couple of people who are exhausted and tired. So, has a lot less budget than, say, the Royal Vauxhall Tavern which is always standing. They'll come into that space, 'Bitter Peach' will do a night at the Royal Vauxhall Tavern. And at that night, it's very much filled with queer people of colour and queer Asian. But outside of that, it can be a big mixture. I think Royal Vauxhall Tavern are probably better than most, to be fair. Royal Vauxhall Tavern tends to have a good mixture. But you'll go to stuff, oh, I don't even go there anymore, but (places) like G A Y. Let's face it, it's full of 19 year old white gay men. It can be difficult to find, but I'm thankful to live in London, because if I wasn't living in a major city, I would probably struggle a lot more. And Manchester is quite good in some ways as well. But I couldn't imagine living somewhere, I don't know, Coventry … I know a friend who lives in Hull, and he's like "There's nothing! There's no queer Asians here!"