“…people try to force you into percentages, when they do try to understand it.”
Pronouns: She/Her
Locations and Names redacted to protect anonymity
And in terms of your own identity, how do you self-describe?
Bisexual.
In terms of your gender identity, how do you describe?
Female.
Thank you. And in terms of your own sexuality, are there any terms that you feel strongly aligned to? So for example, you just said bisexual, is that the term you prefer to use for yourself?
Yes,
But what feels good about that term for you?
I just think it encapsulates where I'm at.
And are there any terms in the bisexual umbrella that you feel that you particularly don't agree with for any reason? Or that you don't like the use of?
Not really. I mean, I'm not offended by any I just prefer (bi).
And if you don't mind my asking, when did you first become aware of your sexuality?
I think truly becoming aware was somewhere like around... somewhere between 18 and 21. But I think it had always kind of been there. I just didn't realise what it was, if that makes sense.
That does. In terms of ‘coming out’ being part of your experience, do the people around you know that you're bisexual?
Everybody except my father.
Okay.
Because he is very old. He's 89. And he's a staunch Catholic, and I just don't want to deal with the fact every day that I'm going to go to hell in his mind.
That is fair enough. So I assume you were raised Catholic?
Yes.
How was that? Did you find that uncomfortable at all? Was that something you were able to reconcile with yourself?
I started to really battle with things probably around Middle School. So around… probably about 13/14. And then it just continued to get worse. So I have left the Catholic Church.
And the term 'coming out'... What does that mean to you? What do you think of when you hear that term?
I think for a long time, I was very uncomfortable talking to people about what I was thinking or feeling. So, to me it was when I was okay with telling people: "Hey, I like girls, too."
Why do you feel like you felt uncomfortable? Do you mind my asking?
Because no one else was doing it?, I mean, 'Hello, Catholic!' I went to 12 years of Catholic school.
Ah, Okay.
Yeah. And yeah, no one was really talking about that. I mean, it was kind of expected that you would date someone who was of a different sex.
And when you have spoken to people about your sexuality, have you had any responses from any individuals or groups once you've learned your sexuality?
You know what? Honestly, I worried about some people how they would take it, and no one has. Everybody has been very accepting.
Great. So you've not really had a negative response in terms of people...?
No. I mean, I've had negative people... just people, random people, I'm a counsellor, I hear lots of people talk. Obviously, I get a lot of people who sit in front of me, you know, saying: "I can't stand gay people." "I don't understand the Bisexual thing. I don't-“ you know, things like that. "I don't understand the trans thing." But I kind of have to deal with that. But they are not people who are just immediately in my life.
No, they're clients for a better word, right? They pay for a service. I'm assuming that you don't... respond to that. What do you feel when you hear people say those kinds of things?
I kind of try to dive deeper into it. "So why do you feel that way?" Just, I don't know, I think part of my job too, is not just helping them with what they came for, but also helping them become more self-aware.
That's great, that makes sense. And you said that you've not really had any negative responses yourself from people about your identity, your sexual identity. You've said it has mostly been okay. What kind of responses have you had? Do you mind my asking?
One of my friends... And it's so funny because he is… still in the closet.
Okay.
But yeah he said: "Oh, we've known all along!" And I'm sitting there thinking: "And you think we don't know about you?" but I won't say that to him.
Yeah, amazing. So it was kind of neutral? Like: "Yeah.."
Yeah. Most of my friends were just: "Oh, okay." And on we went with things. Like I said, he was just like, "Oh, we've known this all along."
But it's great, though. And do you think being a bisexual woman has affected the responses you've heard from people? Do you think in theory, it could affect how someone responds to a bisexual woman?
Maybe, Like I said, if they have deep religious beliefs, I think it would, yeah. I think that'd be the biggest one. I really... although that's probably just because it's been my experience where a lot of the disconnect, (is) religious based. So I think, kind of why I feel that way, that it's mostly religious, I would think (it's) hate based as well.
But no, that's fair enough. It's completely based on your experience as well. That's what I want to hear about. And I don't know your relationship status at the moment. I don't know if you're with anyone or the gender of that person.
I am not with anyone right now.
Ok, you're single at the moment. But in the past when you have been with people, and there is a romantic partner, or just something a bit more casual, for want of a better term. Do you find their gender has affected how people have responded to you?
I mean, obviously, if I'm out with a woman, I tend to get more looks. I'm very lucky. I don't know if you've ever heard of [REDACTED COLLEGE]?
I haven't. No, no.
Okay. It's a very, very uber progressive, liberal arts college here in the States, it does have pretty good ranking. So, like, just being in close proximity to that, and also that there's a huge community in [REDACTED CITY], I'm very fortunate. Because a lot of the times I can frequent... it's not going to be, you know what I mean, like a big issue. There's going to be a lot of support for people. So it's like, it's kind of a lot more commonplace, than, um, some of the more rural areas around, where it would be a little more like people giving you 'the look.'
Do you find when you’re with a particular gender though, in that kind of sense, are there people making assumptions about your sexuality? Or do you think people don't tend to?
I think that they do, because I know that, like me and my one friend, we go out very often. And this is in [REDACTED COLLEGE], it is kind of a more commonplace thing. As opposed to ... here's the thing, [REDACTED COLLEGE] and [REDACTED CITY] are... surrounded by a lot of rural communities. So yeah, you go from one extreme, where things are very open and accepting and all of that right into that… 'look.' Like: "Ooh, we can't trust these people. What is going on there?" But even in [REDACTED COLLEGE]... we've had people, like our favourite bartender at the one location was just like: "Oh, well, I always thought you two were a couple," because we were up there a lot. Yeah. But I mean, it doesn't bother me, whatever you want to think you can think.
If you, for example, were with a guy in a relationship, a cis man, do you think the assumptions would be different?
I think the assumptions would be the same, but it bothers me that it would be thought of differently, potentially.
Okay, can you expand on that a little bit more?
For example, if I was in one of the more rural communities, it would be a lot more acceptable if people thought that we were a couple as opposed to me and my friend going out and being a couple.
That makes perfect sense. I'm just going to ask a bit (about)... I think they call it 'stereotype awareness.' I've done my research here. Are you familiar with any words or phrases or stereotypes... that have been associated with the bisexual community?
I wouldn't say specifically toward the bisexual community, but more toward the gay community. Just like: "Oh, well, you must be 'the woman' in the relationship," because I look feminine. Or I typically portray myself as more feminine. And it doesn't work that way, that drives me nuts when people (go): "Oh, you must be the woman." No, we're both women, if we identify that way in the relationship, it has nothing to do with what we look like.
So you experience a ‘gendering’ almost: "You're the man... you're the woman." Because there ‘has’ to be a man and a woman in a relationship.
Exactly, exactly. And that [interruption] drives me nuts.
Yeah. Why does it drive you nuts?
Because if I wanted to be with a man at that moment, then I'd be with a man. If I want to be feminine, and show myself as a female. And I call myself a female, and I want to be with another person who identifies as a female and looks very feminine. I don't see a problem with that. Like it… neither one of us have to be the man. Why do we got to be a man?
Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me. I appreciate where that is coming from completely. I'm just going to ask about loads of phrases or stereotypes, I think you've already brushed on this. But are you aware of any that are used in particular towards just bisexual women?
Not really, no. And that's the thing: if they see you with a woman, you know, of course, they're going to call you things like 'Dyke,' or 'Lesbo,' or things like that. I don't think people here in the United State.... With bisexual, I think there's a lot of misrepresentation. Like, here; ‘bisexual’... I think very often they think things like: "Oh, that means you'd like to have sex with a man and a woman all at once. Like, you're into multiple lovers.” And it's like, “no, it's not about that.” I mean, some people do do that, but that's not automatically to be presumed. There's a lot (of): "Oh, you must be confused. You have to pick one or the other." No, not really. Why not both?
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
I wouldn't say necessarily a stereotypical name or anything like that. But there's definitely stereotypes.
Yeah. Can you think of any more... or do you think that's kind of covered?
I think those are the big ones that I've run into.
Great. Thank you. Are you aware of the term ‘bierasure’?
No.
I think, actually, you have touched on it, really...quite well. So the term’ bierasure’ … is basically the seeking to undermine or invalidate bisexuality as a valid-
So okay, I think your... I think your accent got it. Bierasure?
So you know the term?
Yes,
Yeah. What does that term mean to you?
It means that... people expect us to pick one or the other. That they don't want us necessarily to exist. And I've honestly felt that from both those gay and straight communities.
Why do you feel they say that? What reasons have been given? Or what kind of things do they say, when they say that?
I think it makes people uncomfortable. Okay, I was married. I was married to a man for three years. And he always struggled. I mean,he had his own issues. They were trust issues. But he always struggled with the fact that: "I have to worry about not only you cheating on me with a man, but I also have to worry about anybody, because you could cheat on me with a woman as well."
As in it ‘doubled’ your chances of being unfaithful?
Right. ‘No, the only thing that's going to increase my chance of cheating on you is the fact that you don't trust me to be around a man or a woman’. Like: "Hello, your disconnect."
Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, in your role as a counsellor, when you're talking to people who maybe have issues accepting their own sexual identity. Do you feel your own identity helps you help people in that respect?
I think it definitely does. Because I can see it from the uncomfortableness that they felt or feel, before they come out, before they start telling people. I feel like I can give them some options as ways to start coming out to people. I can also understand when they say I can tell people, except for... you know, my Nana, my whoever, yeah.
Have you ever divulged your sexuality to a client?
I don't tell them, I don't tell my clients much of anything about myself.
I'm just gonna go back to those responses you've had, very briefly. So you said that you've not really had any negative responses. But have you had any... I want to call them positive responses? Do you feel like you've ever had an instance where your sexuality has been instantly welcomed and accepted?
I think most of my really core friends were that way. Like I said, one friend was just like: "You know, what? We knew all along." My other friends are like: "Okay, that's great." You know, I had one friend who was just like: "I'm glad you could finally or that you trusted me enough to tell me this."
That's nice.
Because you know, a lot of, there's a... how many people? There's a core group of people, maybe about four or five, six maybe at most, that I keep in touch with from high school. Most of my college friends, you know, by then people were a lot more open about things. And I was moving... starting to move into more directions where I was meeting people who are bisexual or who were homosexual. So like, of course, they were going to be much more accepting. Yeah. I mean, and now, you know, it's just like, if people ever ask, or if it comes up in conversation that I say: "Yeah, I'm bisexual." whatever. But overall, I don't even feel like I need, at this point, to tell people. And it is what it is. Like, they'll start talking about guys, I'll start talking about guys or girls, depending what I'm feeling that day. Or you know, who's looking good at the bar? [LAUGHTER]
Yeah, completely.
And that sometimes shocks people who don't know, like when I say: "Wow, she's really hot." And they'd be like: "Oh! I didn't know."
Are there any other spaces where you feel that you are able to express your sexuality, that you are kind of welcomed and accepted?
Pretty much anywhere in [REDACTED CITY].
Great.
Yeah… just being down there. There is a huge community down there. So I think it's a lot more open and stuff. I'm trying to think. I mean, anytime I'm with my friends, I think it's good. So, yeah.
My last question, if you knew you were going to see a bisexual character on stage, no matter what, no matter anything else, just a bisexual character. What kind of things would you like to see? As in: "This is a fair representation. This is not just porn on stage." If you know what I mean, for one.
I would very much like them to look like anybody else. I don't want them to be anything stereotypical.
In terms of looking stereotypical, can you expand on that a little bit for me?
I really just want people to know that you can't just say very feminine men are gay. Okay, how do you know when they're… a man who has a lot of feminine characteristics? I would like it to just be like, ‘it can be any one of us’. You know what I mean? Like if you look at a woman with very short hair, or a shaved head, people will automatically presume: "Oh, she's a lesbian. She's Butch." Right? And no, maybe she just, you know, doesn't want to deal with all of this (indicates head and hair)....going on. There are days I think about shaving my head because I don't want to deal with all of this. [LAUGHTER]
Yeah. Yeah.
I just don't think that people realise that, it can be literally anybody. Anybody could have a different sexuality than what you do.
….You know, there's not very many positive or human interpretations of bisexuality. I think in the media. I've heard of a few mostly....’Crazy ex-girlfriend’ I've heard is very good. ‘Brooklyn 99’ is a very good, apparently, representation of a bisexual woman. And then ‘Schitt's Creek’. Which I've never seen.
No, I haven't either.
So yeah, You know, I'm not surprised why people struggle to understand. And I think it's quite... not necessarily correct to think gender is a binary. For me how it works in my brain. Like I think gender is a spectrum.
Hmm, very fluid.
Yeah, completely. But so I think that when people say you're bi... they go,’ okay, so it's a man or a woman’.
Mm hmm. Right.
Yeah. So, yeah, I just find it very interesting. And I guess the way I process stuff is making shows.
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing, too, that drives me nuts is people try to force you into percentages when they do try to understand it. “Like, is it like half and half?’ Or are you like, 75/25?” I don't know what I am. This is what I'm into and maybe next week, it's going to be something else? Or it's like I meet this guy, and he's a complete cock. No, I'm not going to be interested. But I meet this chick that is really sweet and kind of good looking. And we, you know, we vibe together and then yeah, there's not a percentage.
And it would be fine if there was.. like that. But it's just is not,
Right, I just, yeah, I can't equate, huh? Well, I've had so many of ‘ this’ relationship, and so many of ‘that’ relation. So mathematically…
Tick! Yeah, ‘I've ticked both boxes now.’
Yeah. ‘Have you thought about your relationship? I mean, come on. Let's start talking percentages here. How many jerks have you dated compared to really nice people? Let's go there’. I don't know.
… So actually, a lot of conversations I've had with people (are them) going: "I want to talk to someone else please".
That is so true. Because yeah, people don't talk about it. It's one or the other. Heck, even dating sites. I've got to pick one or the other. I can't pick both on many dating sites. Yeah. A lot of dating sites make you choose one or the other. You can't choose both, like..
Boring!
I want to, I want to see the full spectrum of what I want, what's out there for me, not just part of it.
Yeah. Strange, isn't it? I mean, I've not been on it for a very long time. But I imagine that isn’t fun.
Ah, I've actually been thinking of creating an alternate profile for... on the same app.
Do it! Do it!
Just to see if they notice.
I think you should do that. I think that would work.
It might. Look, how would they know it's not my twin sister or something? Right? I'll just have to use different pics of myself.
I say go for it.